TR 28/11

Participant #1:
Hello. Here we are again.

Participant #1:
Hello. Welcome to another broadcast of the thinking Reimagined. And today's is very dear to my heart as Nephemia and everyone will attest because we're talking about 16 days of activism every year. We come to this topic since 1991 when it was started, and we still are the precipice of what is occurring globally. The whole subject matter of violence against women and children, and I am going to add men as well, is predominant globally. We've had the Pandemic that has affected us. We've had climate change, we have the war in Ukraine. We have topics like sexual reproductive health going on right now. And it is such a poignant subject and I do believe that it deserves an entire episode. So I'm going to introduce you to Nifami, our moderator, who is always with us. Nafami, welcome. Peter Amand Boyor is with us today and halfway through the broadcast, Benny Finisher will be joining us. Benny is a poet, a thespian musician, the whole gamut, but he's got an amazing new play that's come out called Menace, which really tells the stories of the violence against people and it includes men. That's the twist to it. So welcome everyone and Nafami, what's going on in your subject area? Good to see you again, Peter. Amen. Boyle welcome this episode of the thinking remark. Let's begin by perhaps establishing what you have covered over the years,

Participant #1:
the prevalent forms of gender based violence, visa, visa, what you have experienced, the cases that you have handled, and also the consultations that you've had in previous years. You know, Nafami, that's a very heavy subject to bring up at the very beginning because very often when people talk about violence against women, they focus on rape and domestic violence. But it's actually much deeper than that. You can't talk about violence against women if you don't bring in subjects like human trafficking, the biases that we face in the work space, the discrimination, the female genital mutilation, the child brides. You have to include all of those things when you're talking about gender violence. I mean, when you think about the things that are going on in the world right now in Iran where there's a protest going on and the girls are taking off their head scarves and cutting their head because they're making a statement. You go to the US. Where the roe versus weight has been reversed and people are talking about reproductive health, these are all violations of women. You talk about the microaggression that is going on in the world around us. We talk about climate change and the effect it's going to have on women. Look at the Pandemic and what the Pandemic has done. The other day I was reading an article that came out from the UN in September. So a year ago I was telling people that the what's it called, World Economic Forum was talking about 136 years before we have gender parity across all areas. Guess what the figure is, gentlemen. Do you want to take a guess? Nifami, guess what the figure is right now. It's no longer 136. Take a wild guess.

Participant #1:
500. If that was the case, I would have just said that's it 300 years before we have gender parity. Gender parity. You're looking at 300 years. It's getting worse. And so whilst we have ten days sorry, 16 days of activism, where we're going to talk about things that we can all do within our communities. The reality is this needs to be a daily subject, and everyone must get involved. Male, female, transgender, whatever you are along that spectrum, you need to get involved because it is a crisis situation. We need to change the dynamics. We're in a paternal, society, patchable world, and within that world, women need to have a place, and it takes both all genders, I'm going to say, coming together to prioritize what is essential for bringing this together. We cannot continue year in, year out to talk about 16 days of activism, and it's actually getting worse. You've highlighted how the situation has been heightened by the pandemic crisis occasion by the climate change, global conflict, and what appears to be a major economic instability around the world. The issue of violence against women and girls remains perhaps the most pervasive human rights violation that we are faced with today. There are some amazing statistics here, Mr. Boyo. We're told that last year, nearly one in five women aged between 20 and 24 were married before turning 18, and that less than 40% of women who experience violence seek help of any sort. The Dharma just mentioned the fact that everyone must be involved. Perhaps you can help us break it down. Precisely how can we all get involved? The UN is being proactive with the 16 days of activism, but let's break it down to how you and I, how the listener, the viewer can become an active, can take active participation in ensuring that this manage is actually brought down to the barista level. Okay, well, first of all, when we're talking about gender based violence, especially in this part of the world, I think it's a learned behavior. Like they say, charity begins at home and it transgresses and progresses two generations, because that is the learned behavior from what they experience or see at home. If your child and your parents are fighting or your dad is hitting your mom and she does nothing, she accepts it. The family accepts it. The mother says, that is what I went through. So it's part of married, so you go to it. So you're sending a message to the next generation that it's okay, it's part of marriage. Some say it's a show of love. If your spouse doesn't hit you, they don't blow you. So it's a learned behavior which has to be broken. And I think as individuals, something like thinking of Magic Man bringing an awareness to this gender based violence is showing people that there are voices out there. There's help out there. It's not acceptable. We need to break the yoke. We need to break that chain because it goes on from generation to generation to generation because they feel it's okay. It's part of the culture. It is not part of any culture. Violence is not a cultural behavior. It is an aggression. Take for instance I don't want to call people's names, but there's an instance of a wife that was being abused physically, mentally and financially. But the in laws are saying you have to stay in the marriage for appearances. You have to stay in the marriage because that is how marriages are just accepted. Just go on with it. I went through it. So it's nothing new. Yes, it's nothing new. But is it right? Is this something that we need to continue? I don't know. I'm not a psychologist or whatever, but from my own perspective, if you people or children or the next generation, they learn by example. It is not what I say, it's what I do. So I think we as individuals need to break that shape. If we see someone being abused, we talk to them. We ask them to get help. If they're afraid to get help. Sometimes just I don't care if you've been called a busybody, but it's better to be a busybody than to be going to a funeral. Because it always ends badly. It never ends well. I'm not only talking about physical abuse now, I'm talking about mental abuse, financial abuse, because women especially feel trapped in their relationship. But there's help out there. Yes, you might start at the bottom, but trust me, there's a support system that can help you. There are NGOs, there's other family members, there's people that will speak up. There are people that will fight for you, just get away and break the chain. I'm just wondering no, it's interesting. I'm sorry, Nefarni. Go ahead. Yes, I was just saying that I'm wondering if we have a working system that provides both for victims in this regard. When you say move out, speak out, just do the right thing, do we seem to have that structure, particularly in this part of the world, that makes it easy for victims to take the steps? We don't if I mean, you know that we don't have a social system. There's no social welfare system. It's not developed. It's part of the reason why during the pandemic it got worse for women and girls. There is no social welfare system. Handing out 5000 naira to people is not going to help when somebody's life is at stake. You stock women and their abuses, children and their abusers into houses without a way for them to get the support, the mental health, the physical help, the emotional help. There's nothing out there that infrastructure needs to be built up. I've always said it the infrastructures that need attention in this part of the world is education, social welfare, health. I don't care how many bridges you're building and how many houses you're putting on. But if you can't take care of the people and provide the system that the people need, then what are you creating? Anywhere else in the world, women can move out of their abusers homes and almost immediately there will be services for them. There will be homes that they can go to, children can be in and go off to school, and they can create some kind of normalcy in their lives to the best of their ability. The law enforcement takes it upon themselves to prosecute abusers. Over here, there's an invitation to come have a chat and then the family gets involved. And before you know it, the abused is following the abuser back to the same home because they're trying to protect a family name. What name? And then when the individual is killed, it's sorry. And then their tears, it could have been avoided. So they've sort of normalized. They've normalized abuse to the point where it is acceptable and people turn the other cheek. We had a situation that live abundantly, where we had a call maybe a month or five weeks ago. A young girl was being abused and somebody ran me and said, can you please help? This girl has been sleeping on a balcony for eight months and she's beaten every night. Well, how old is this girl? I thought they were talking about an 18 year old. They're talking about a twelve year old. What's the situation? The family of poverty. And a cousin steps in and says, we're going to take this girl. She will live with us. We'll care for her. And they hand her over because they promise that they're going to educate her and get her to through university. Guess what? The girl was being beaten every night. She was so emissiated. When I saw her at the police station, I almost wept. But she was sleeping outside. Her own cousin put her outside on the balcony, the veranda to sleep all night crying. So on this particular night, she was just overcome with grief and pain. She ran to the neighbor. And it's that neighbor who got in touch with me. And at midnight I'm going to a police station to come and comfort a twelve year old girl who is sleeping on a metal framed chair at the police station. So I have to give her my scarf to COVID up. I have to give her a pillow to lie on. There's nothing. How can you say you have gender units and you can't offer services? Something has to change. Yeah. And this is not an isolated incident because it happens a lot. There's so much going on. There are men who are coming home and beating their wives and then threatening to kill them. And they stay because of family. What is the value that we place on a woman's life? That's the question people need to ask you're a father of girls. Nfami what is the value that you place on women's lives? There's so much value place on the lives of men. We need to make a shift. And what's so bad now it's the abuse is getting younger and younger every day. Now little boys of 13 or 14 are beating up their girlfriends because maybe she didn't call or she's talking to someone else. There's so many instances now of teenagers being abused by their fellow teenage boys. I'm talking about girls now. Yes, there's also gender violence against the male, but I'm talking about young boys thinking, okay, there was some figure that was trended of this call that had a date with another guy and they were like 18 or 17. And the guy got his group of friends and they beat the girl up. I'm sure you saw that video. It was like last month or two months ago. And they beat this up like with belts and things. But what was so good is they put it on social media and the police got involved and arrested them. I'm sure you saw this video a few months back. So what message are we trying to pass here that is okay for ten boys to build one girl because she had a date. She's a teenager. She can have dates. So what message are we sending as a dog? So I'm so happy that I can imagine it's actually taking up this 16 days of activism. Because even though it should be every day of activism but fine, we're bringing it to the light because it has to change. All right? They have to push for change. This might sound like a long term approach, but I'm also concerned about the case at the time I talked about situation where certain people have number of looking for family members to those children on their behalf. What is this thing about not just having the number of children that you have the capacity to raise? You look at it and the number of Africana streets and things like that. I know there's a lot about

Participant #1:
the demographic dividends in the population explosion and how we can impact positively, but we don't seem to have all the indices working. What do you say to this? And discriminate birth target that seems to have resulted in a lot of poverty in this part of the world. And that seems to have also given this children less cover and individuals to look out for them. Can I just cut in here? The incident Dr. Amar was talking about. However we want to sugarcoat it's, human trafficking. And a lot of human trafficking goes on every day with our neighbors, our friends. And they don't term it as human trafficking, but that is what it is. If you take a child out of his home, they might be the poorest people on earth. And then you take the child and you promise to educate that child, and you're going to give the parents money or you're going to pay for their fees or whatever, and then you bring that child to your home. And you treat the child different from your own children, and they're sleeping on the balcony, and you're physically abusing them and treating them like they're below human beings. That is human trafficking. That is not being helped. That is debt bondage. You're putting that child and that family in debt bondage, which is a part of human trafficking. And it goes on so much. In Nigeria. Yes, in Nigeria it goes on a lot. They don't term it as human trafficking, but that is what it is exactly. Tech bondage. Well, Peter, you raised a very good point. And I know that this is not a data gathering culture. Actually the entire African continent, we need to start getting data because there's so much data that's needed for change to occur. And if that data is not captured, starting with the birth of children, recording the birth of children, not faking documents when it's necessary, but actually, mandating, that when children are born, you record them. That way you begin to get a better idea about the population of this country. Number one, too, you begin to look at the services that are needed to support this population. And three, you now make parents, families accountable for how they raise their children. At the end of the day, if you have more children than you can cope with or care for, to use another phrase, then you become responsible for those. You can't take responsibility for those children. And so you're looking for other family members or others to take care of them. And it goes back to the cultural thinking, the cultural thinking of I can have as many children as possible, and the children are a gift of God or whatever the good books have told them. But the reality is, if you don't practice family planning, if you don't start to think about what it takes to raise these children and give them the opportunities that they need and they deserve, then you put them at risk of being trafficked, you put them at risk of being abused. And for them to survive, they would do what is necessary. So a child being trafficked, and to be honest with you, the figures that are available from IOM right now, there's a greater number of people, children being trafficked within Nigeria than outside Nigeria. I know you've talked about the Japanese thing, and people are leaving. This is different then. There is much more of this human trafficking going on within the country itself. And it comes and stems from poverty. But these things can be addressed, and they must be addressed head on. It's really sad how we're fast normalizing this development, particularly for households in Nigeria that engage the services of underage children as house help many of them are children from the other parts of the country, from other parts of Africa and the Republic and places like that. And it's a very active business, it's very fastly normalized. I mean, you're married, you have children, you're on the lookout for households and you just look for those agents. You get to pay them. Many of these students don't even get to be paid for the service to render. There's someone else family member, an agent who let it. And I know that we've had conversations with IOM in this regard about how can we begin to criminalize, but beyond that, what more can we do as a means of actively sensitizing?

Participant #1:
I don't want to call them innocent, but there's a lot of ignorance taking place here because there are people who engage these services who do not even understand that this is a case of human trafficking. They don't know that those children in their houses are taken from somewhere. How do we begin to engage actively engaged to Nigerian populist, particularly those who are in practices like it? I have to clarify something. You know, there is a vape law. There is a law that criminalizes it. The key is for the states to adopt those laws and for it to be reinforced. If you don't enforce the law, then it's just a law that's on paper and you know the story, there are lots of laws, but who is responding to them, who is obeying them, and who is reinforcing those laws? So there is a back law and it's against the law to move children or move people. And the key word in that law is coercion. But again, what right, what does the twelve year old or ten year old know about? I'm going to my aunties in Lake, also in ipaden, to be with my cousin and to help with what they're going to tell them that they're going to school. But the reality is that they become slaves. And the other question that you have to realize that I brought up earlier and you actually raised a very powerful statistics about the 40% of women who were married before the age of 18. There's a lot of child brides there are lots of child brides going on, child marriages, excuse me, going on right now. That again goes back to poverty and in some cases religious beliefs that, you know, once you're a Menstruating girl, then you're free to get married. And so you see these 17 year old men with 14 year old girls. It's against the law, but in some parts of the country it is acceptable. And those states refuse to reinforce the law or even adopt those laws because it will criminalize the behavior that the majority of them are doing. But they're putting this girl's lives at risk. They really are. And what happens is the girls will have one or two children, end up with Pastula and before you know it, they're going for a younger one. And it just continues to perpetrate because the society, the cultural behavior that's acceptable does not give credence to women. We don't value our goals. And until we learn to value our goals and thereby value our women, this will continue. It is a patch of world and in this society, the men will I want to add something from a personal experience. I was filming in one part of Nigeria. It's a village, but it's now more developed. And there was this young girl that used to bring food and she had a baby. And I was like, oh, I just kind of young to have a child. And the other lady is like, this is her third child. And I'm like how like the culture there is when she start menstruating to have children to show that you're fertile. So 20 year old girl can have four children without even being married from four different fathers. And it's okay in that village, in that society because now she's showing she's quite well, but now she has four children with four different fathers. So how is she going to take care of these children? They're going to end up being trafficked or sent to some auntie or uncle to stay with. And only we don't even know what's going to happen to those children. So I think what Drum was saying about education being very important is paramount. Because if they don't know, then they cannot change. Because they don't know. They haven't been told that this is not common practice. You don't have to show your fertile at 13 years old by having a baby. You don't have to show that your fertile at 20 by having five children with five different fathers. You understand what I'm saying? So that learned behavior again, that cultural behavior. Education is very important. I'm not talking about formal classroom education. I'm just educating people on this is okay, this is not okay. You don't have to do this. You don't have to be this way. You don't have to show that your photo. Some places you have to be pregnant before you get married. What if you don't get married now you have a child. Do you understand? So the practices too have to be enlightened. People have to be educated. So education is very important, unfortunately. Please remember not just being educated but advocating and being aware. But we need the infrastructure in place. We're lacking of infrastructure, really are. And it's worse for boys. Boys that are abused, where do they go? Who's going to listen to them? You now have this cultural bias against boys that are abused. No one's going to believe them. So they live with shame and they're traumatized. But yet they have to be in this society, society that says that. What do you mean she beat you up? I mean you're a man, you're much stronger. Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. But absolute nonsense. I had a man tell me yesterday that he was beaten up by his girlfriend. Yes, but if you saw that, you think there's a stigma that goes along with it and we have to deal with it. There's a stigma for anyone who is physically abused, but I'm looking at violence along the whole spectrum and not just limiting it to rape and domestic violence, because that's not it. We're talking about genderbased violence, long spectrum, and we have to use that yardstick when we talk about it. By the way, it looks like Benny has joined us. Hello, Benny, thanks for joining us. Please turn on your camera because we're actually live on LinkedIn. Remember when we did Men Don't Cry? Yeah,

Participant #1:
it's better. You're welcome. Though it's not your popular conversation, but there's evidence to show that domestic violence isn't solely a female problem. So one in four men have suffered from some form of physical abuse from an intimate partner. And that's that's why Ben is joining us. Benny is a point and performer and he has show coming up tied to Menace. And it's interesting to know that while we're talking about 16 days of activism, a lot of attention is turned to violence against women and girls. I like that you're also now focusing on abuse where men are victims. So I like you to talk to us about because I'm seeing on the Fly of Menace, I'm saying that this is based on actual events. Benny? Yes. Hi, Nifami. Thank you for having me. Hello, Dr. AMA. Hello, Mr. Peter. Hello.

Participant #1:
Yes. So manage was birth out of giving voice to the harsh and the voiceless. We have a lot of people, both male and female, that have gone through or still going through domestic violence and gender based violence, basically. Not just domestic. Physical, emotional, all kinds. And the attention is geared towards the female more. That's not to say that it's not important to give funding. Balance is very important

Participant #1:
about the problem that we are trying to solve. So I have a few people, some I met, some I heard their story and decide to be their voices. So they share the stories like it's based on true events. Then I decided to know what the world needs to hear. They need to know this is happening.

Participant #1:
I know when it comes to being a man, not to say I'm being abused, because firstly, being a man, you expected to just suck it up and just be the man. Because when they say be a man now it's anonymous

Participant #1:
wrong. Don't flinch, don't show emotions, men don't cry and all that. So you see a woman, you tell the woman, Be a man. And you're wondering, are you trying to say I should be another gender? Or you see the man trying to connect with his emotions to tell the man why you acting like a woman. That's where the problem is. So now the play Menace is based on true events of men that have been abused and being abused physically, not just from their spouses. Some other ones are really connecting, fighting for like there's one character fighting for his sister who was being abused by another man. Okay, the focus of the play is on the root cause of this because we keep attacking the rotten fruits, so to speak, the rotten fruit of the tree of gender based violence. But there's a root if you don't need it. But other words, it keeps growing and keeps daring fruit and just keep crushing the fruits and all. So now I'm trying to give people an idea through story because there's power in storytelling to let people connect and empathize and become passionate about people and realize that this is a particular topic. We need to not just jettison or touch lightly. You have to find balance and help this man, help men that are trying to become better men. Even if they're showing the weakness. They're trying to tell you, I'm human. Being human means you have a level of weakness. You have a level of strength and you are aware of that and know how to use it well for the betterment of humanity, basically. So the play comes up this weekend, tomorrow, Saturday the 26th and 27th, saturday and Sunday. It's in partnership with British Council and with Leave Abundantly and Allied Empowerment. So I think that's that about it and well researched. It's not just trying to praise the man or say you need to PT the man. No, it's just the truth. Because I often say, which is one of the phrases that project is attached to. So there are three sides to the story. They told

Participant #1:
the truth and sometimes maybe fixing dies. We don't get to hear the old store, so we don't have to wait till one guys before we start making changes

Participant #1:
outside the camera. She mentioned there are laws. Question is, are they being enforced? Are people really taking it into concerns that, okay, these laws are not just there to feel books. They're not just there to say, oh, there is a society, there is a nation, there is a community that we just have to write something for buyers.

Participant #1:
The many cultures that project such men as weak. So look at you and then you tell me you're doing a play from experience or from lived experience. I'm wondering, the average man is wondering really, the woman has beaten you before, you have been abused before. How come is it that you're not man enough? That really has been the narrative. So it's really bold when we now have a situation where men tell their story but speak to us very briefly about how important is this? Because there seems to be when you look at what the United Nations is doing, there seem to be that perception that the focus would be on women marginalized. The corresponditions around the world is now making women and girls victims about. These and there's also the need for men to come on board if these menace is going to be tackled. But at the same time you're saying that this is not a female only challenge. So isn't there some sort of, how do I put this now? Some sort of mixed interests? So on one hand, men are to come on board to ensure that equality is achieved but on the other hand, I'd also say that we are also victims in this case. Well, if I may, come on, you and I know the truth shows, let's be honest enough of this, yeah, I've allowed you your moment, but now let's break it down. The data shows that the number of women who are violated is disproportionately higher than that of men. It is true that men are beginning to speak up about the experiences that happen but the data is much stronger for women. Now, we live in a practical world, in a world where you men dictate or think you're dictating what is going to occur and you are dictating it right? It's the reason why when you look in the business world, we're dealing with the issues of how much money women can get from the VCs and the disproportionate number of men who because they're males and there's an affinity buyers will get the funding that they need before a woman gets the funding. That's another form of violation. If I'm just as good as you are and I am putting something out there that is of meaning and innovation to everybody, why you're going to give it to men, to a man, the money to a man before you give it to a woman. So we know the data in the US. And in the UK. In the US, I think it's like 2% of women who get the actual funding that they want from VCs and I don't know why I'm deviating here. But I'm trying to give you an example. In Europe, it's one, 2%, 1.8. I think it is. Right now, the truth of the matter is that kind of funding has actually dropped since the pandemic. So we're going back to the Pandemic. What happened during the pandemic? A group of men ruling the world, the 109, 191 countries in the world, most of them are ruled by men, not women. They sit at the table and decide what it is that is important for them to address while the issues that they're addressing don't necessarily affect the women. So you need more women at this decision table. You only have to look at some of those global leaders when they take photographs and you see that it's just about a handful of women here and there that are at the table with these men. Look at a UN conference and see how many men are invited to speak as opposed to women. You devalue women and so when you devalue women in the workplace, it continues in the homes and in other areas of society, we have to give credence to women if the women can have more decisionmaking. And I always say to the women, if you don't get to sit at the table, bring your bench, take your place at the table, say what you need to say and get it going wherever you are. We're not going to change this power dynamic. The power dynamic as it exists right now does not benefit women. There's a lot of talkism as a woman, I don't want it, I don't need it. But we need to stop that. But we also need to educate our goals. There's no reason why you're taking your goals out of school because they have rich puberty to become wives. You're using them as a way to earn money and to bring wealth into your families. That is not why you gave birth to them. And then in your homes when you're beaten up your wives and your children, your girlchild that you're having run around. Do you know how many families in Nigeria actually keep their girls at home or send their girls to work so that the money they bring in is being used to educate a boy? We have one of those. We actually have quite a few that have come through the Live Abundantly program. Why? The boys are going to get through school, get married, and leave you behind. The girls are going to come back and think about you, their parents. Why differentiate what you're offering to girls versus boys? That's a form of violence. You're violating goals. But my whole thing right now is we need to make a shift in the power dynamic. Enough of the talking about what is going on. It is time for us to address the issues. And the root cause of all these issues goes back to culture, religion, social behavior, biases, discrimination. If we don't start addressing these, it's going to get worse. As I said earlier, the latest study from the UN, 300 years to reach gender parity. I won't be around. Maybe there will be about six reiterations of me that will come back and I'll be able to say, oh good, now I can have equal access to education and to funding and all of the things that are meant to me. Women's, right is human rights. I'm a woman. I don't want to come back as a man. I want to come back as a woman. I've got work to do and I'm coming back for each and every one of

Participant #1:
you. Want to pose another question?

Participant #1:
You're moving around and we're losing you back to where you were. Nephemy. He moved from where he was

Participant #1:
moving around. When we're talking about abuse against men, when you say abuse against me, they think it's what you call it now power, strength. It's not that. The guy abuse is much more than that. It's not about were fighting and she won. That is what people think that is why they say Lady Beach of no. They are women that burn their husbands or spouses or partners with irons. I've seen that. I have seen that. That is a form of abuse. There are women that keep their husband's Mickey so they can sleep with them. That is a form of abuse. So there's so much more than just physical fighting and this person won or this person is weaker. It has nothing to do with that. Abuse is not a show of strength or whatever you want to call it. It's much more than that. No, I agree with you. Nifami was moving around. I'm sure he'll be back shortly. Well, I agree with you, but the question is, how do you end this bias and this discrimination? Because all of that leads to this violence that we're dealing with. I mean, here we are once again talking about 16 days of activism against violence, and we're expanding it to contain all of the entire spectrum. What are we doing? What are we going to do? What are we doing? That brings me to something I mentioned to you yesterday. I saw this video that's trending on social media. This girl has, like, millions of likes and follows or whatever, and she posted if a guy rips a girl and then apologizes and then gives her 1 million, would she report him or not? She said she would take the 1 million and then ask him for a second round. So what message are we trying to send there? What are these young people thinking? They're making jest of rape. Rape is not a sexual act, which I've mentioned how many times. It's not about having sex. So what is that message? Did you see that video then? Yes, I saw it. When you sent it through,

Participant #1:
my mouth was just dropping.

Participant #1:
I saw the video as well. My George was dropped. And there's more videos like that going around. Are we rising rates now? Not necessarily. Young people, they feel freedom of speech and freedom to just go crazy on social media just for people. You think you'll walk by saying stuff on social media and while some other people take everything said on social media very serious, so you don't even know who is affected or negatively. So when you have people make jokes about things that actually people are dealing with things very traumatic for them. Because then the question, like Drummer said is, how do we fix this? People don't do this. No. Where is it coming from? The media. Because most of the media has because if the media keeps projecting certain things, it engineers people's way of thinking, which is the media. If you really want to fix people, the media has because what people see often what they connect with, actually reengineers their mind. So we keep saying people make jokes and say it's escaped and say it's just coming

Participant #1:
serious. People need healing. Joke about society. Joke about people abuse getting abused and all that.

Participant #1:
Excuses. Exactly. Sorry, I interrupted. What's so funny about it? I checked the likes and I checked the likes of other videos like that, and they were, like, in hundreds of thousands and millions. And then I checked the likes about human trafficking.

Participant #1:
We ourselves. Not me. Well, I viewed it. So I guess one of the society you're right, it's a society. So we have a responsibility, too, to speak up. Absolutely. And sharing and laughing and adding to it.

Participant #1:
But now I'm part of the numbers that increases. But I saw it, not because I wanted to, but because it popped up. As an explorer,

Participant #1:
why did I choose to do this? I could have done something else. And I'm like,

Participant #1:
we all have

Participant #1:
we all have a path to play.

Participant #1:
It's not just gliding over the truth and making it look like the problem is not. Sorry to say,

Participant #1:
one of the things I'm going to say about that video.

Participant #1:
His line is frozen. Your last statement was frozen. Okay. So when people say something, that it's, rather than the truth in reality, and make sure at the end of it, they realize we are not really tackling this. We just want to go by and be married and be happy, like nothing is happening. But this thing keeps happening until it eats everyone up and it's difficult to fix. So if we don't start with me, it starts with you. It grows that way because the person that likes that video, it started with one person, then it keeps increasing. It's like you see a video. Now, curiosity. Guess what if I go on social media and start looking for the video, I add, so what if, out of curiosity, I just tell myself, because once you increase the number, the algorithm may know what happens to social media. It keeps popping. Because that's why I popped on mine as an explorer. Exactly. We have to really take actions,

Participant #1:
which is what Menace is about. I am doing yeah, talking about Benny. So it's a one man play. How does that work? Only you on stage. Will you be from reciting poetry? Will you be singing? I've been playing that back and forth in my mind. It's multi dimensional. Okay, so you have a man, like, you see him physically, but by the time the place that you see characters playing out, you can tell the difference. Yeah, it's the performance. Multi dimensional. I've been an old man, I've been the little boy, I've been the lady. And it's storytelling, drama, and a little bit of committee in it. You cry, you laugh, you get upset, but at the end of the day, we don't hear the truth. We're running from how long is the play? 90 minutes. 90 minutes. Looking forward to it. I must say, I saw the first and Ben is so believable that you just get transformed into these different characters that you don't even realize is the same human being explained. And so I recommend everyone listening this because I tell you, you think they're different people and just one human. When you're there, you're watching different people looking

Participant #1:
tomorrow.

Participant #1:
Thank you. All right, we have to go now. I'm glad that this 16 days of activism is not only focused on gender violence, violence against women and girls. I think we're now talking about gender based violence which captures everyone, whether you're in the majority or minority. But I like to have your finance comment on this particular conversation before we go.

Participant #1:
Is there something wrong with your audio?

Participant #1:
Yeah, audio

Participant #1:
okay. We'll return to Dr. AMA while hopefully she fixes that. Can I have your final comments, Mr. Boyer and Benny on this one? Okay, well, I think every day should be gender violence based activism, but let us try to be aware, create awareness and be conscious of what we're doing and what we're teaching the next generation. Because like I said, they learn by example, not only by words. So it is something that should be brought to the forefront because it happens every day. All forms of gender based violence, not only physical, mental, but like was mentioned in the podcast today, there's so many forms of genderbased violence and the more aware and conscious we are, the more we get to know about it and we hope that people will make changes

Participant #1:
and they were looking forward to see that change happen. Thank you so much. Mr. Boja, is your audio fixed now?

Participant #1:
Not yet. We still cannot hear you, Dr. Amar. We still cannot hear you. So let me have you find

Participant #1:
hi Benny. Hi. I would say it dropped today. Every day.

Participant #1:
As long as

Participant #1:
it's not only when you

Participant #1:
should have activism, everything they talk about, talk about

Participant #1:
Joey Christmas, it should be an everyday I agree with you.

Participant #1:
Hello. Alright, I think that we're having issues with Benny's network. Dr. Arma, we had you just is it audio back?

Participant #1:
I think it's done. Again, we can't hear you. However, I must say that there's a lot of expectation as we count down towards the I think the 16 days of active kickstarters a day after this recording and the time I mentioned the Qatar issue earlier campaigners are now calling on FIFA and other football associations to show some sort of

Participant #1:
amplify the voices of Iranian women who are leading national protests following the death of Amini, the 22 year old Amini, while she was detained the police custody after she was arrested for nowhere in the correct hijab. So there is so much expectation as to perhaps there will be a tipping point, something drastic that will make people change their mind. Particularly when you consider a situation where there seem to be a lot of reactions. I mean a situation where governments are countries around the world are now considering laws and policies that will foster the identity and all of these things that we're talking about to cater to women and also defeat the issue of gender based balance. Tatama, if you're there, I'll take your final comments now. I think I'd have to move completely, but hopefully you can hear me on my audible. Yes, you're audible now. So, what was your question? Sorry? Your final comments on this issue as a wrap up. My final comment, I think, is one that I will always stand by. It is time for us to take action. It is time for us to change the power dynamics. It's time for us to value the girls and the women in our lives actually also value each other. Those are my family words, really and truly. This can be addressed by putting the proper infrastructure in place in the places where there is an infrastructure that supports those who are being violated in getting their lives together with mental, emotional support, financial, get along with their lives. It does make a difference. But if you don't have those kinds of systems in place, then you deal with situations where girls are violated, they get pregnant and the option is you marry them when you go to prison. That's not an option. As far as I'm concerned, that's not an option. Or your girls get to a certain age and you think that they become the pawn for making your lives richer, that is not an option. So we have to value each other. We have to take steps to make sure that people are living life where they can thrive and live to the fullest potential without being violated in any way possible. The level of violation in this world is too much. Whether it's microaggressive, discriminatory, biases, physical, emotional, financial, it's too much. It's time for change, and we have to come together and unite and deal with it. Thank you. We must value each other. Well, one thing is certain that the issue of violence against women and girls is preventing, and you and I can begin to play active roles in making this a reality. Dr. Aman, thank you for joining us in this episode. I'm finished. I'm looking forward to seeing your most talked about performance on Sunday. And Peter Aman boyo, thank you so much for your contribution on this episode. Nikami, a good day. Goodbye, everyone. Bye, everyone. Thank you. Bye. Thank you. Your camera wasn't on. Thank you, Daddy.